12.10.2006

Universal Grammar

Hello Everybody,

1) Read Unit 7 (Universal Grammar) from your book and visit the following links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_grammar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_and_parameters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_language
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,414291,00.html

2) Then answer the following questions:
1. If you already know a second language and start learning a third, what is the initial state?
2. What is the Criticism to UG? Answer this question by referring to Piraha People in particular.

Tuncer Can

108 comments:

3231050101 said...

1)In this situation we constitue our universal grammar according to our knowledge of second language.We all know that according to universal grammar all languages have some kind of syntax,clause structure,pronouns,adverbs,adjectives,pronunciation etc.In learning a third language,our starting point is the final state of our second language and the universal grammar.We develop hypotheses about the third language by looking at the rules of our second languge.For instance,if our second languge has prepositions,we think that the third language must have prepositions too.
2)There are some criticisms against universal grammar too.Some claim that it is possible for children to learn a language without being born with grammatical rules.And the UG isn't falsifiable because it makes generalizations about existing languges,it doesn't make any predictions.In addition to these some argue that the unlearnability of languages is a too strict model of grammar.Piraha languge can be given as exampe as being opposed to UG.Piraha language doesn't have numbers,name of colurs,subordinate clauses,past tense and in this language oly three pronouns exist.Acccording to UG all languages have something in common such as subordinate clauses,numbers,colours,syntax,pronunciation etc. If this is so,then why doesn't piraha languge have subordinate clauses,numbers,colours,etc.This issue can weaken the foundation of this theory.

Anonymous said...

3231050073 said that
There are two concepts of UG:principles and parametres.Principles refer to core grammars of all languages and they are invariable.Parameteres refer to the specific features that all languages have so when we try to learn the third language after the second language the initiaal stage is to analyze the parametres which show the differences between these languages.Because our second language that we have already known and our third language that we are trying to learn have some grammer rules that arwe common.Therefore the isssue for the third language is the determination of how or whether a given linguistic parametres can be reset after analyzing the parametres of the two languages.
2-a-UG in sum is the system of principles,conditions and rules that are elements or properties of all human languages.In other words,tere are some universal elements among the languages.One of these universal elements is that all languages have subordinate clauses.However the Piraha don't use subordinate clauses.Instead of saying when I have finished eating Iwould like to speak with you they say I finish eating I speak with you .It'slikely the only language in the world that don't use subordinate clauses.Also according the universal elements all languages can express past time references but the Piraha language doesn't have any words associated with past time references.
b-According to UG going from subset to superset requires only input.Because one can easily notice that there is new information to learn and can therefore modify his or her system on the basis of listening which provides also positive evidence.Butr this situation isn't true for the Piraha.Because they don't have a counting system such as many all every.Daniel Everett who was a linguistic living with them tried teach them to count with Portugese numbers used by Brazilians.But in the end not a single person could count to ten so the Piraha people disapproves this theory because they don'thave a counting system in their lan guage and their daily life.

Anonymous said...

3231050127
1.)According to universal grammar,all languages have a common structure basis.There are a finite set of fundamental principles that come to all languages.So all languages are alike in some ways.After you learned a second language,your initial point of learning a third language changes according to subset principle.If your second language is superset and L3 is subset,then you will have negative evidence(you will begin learning L3 with making corrections.But if your L2 is subset and L3 is superset-,then you will have positive evidence.(you will require input.)
2)Universal Grammar argues that there are features that are common to all languages.For example;all languages have similar grammatical categories(verbs,nouns...)All languages 'can' express past time reference,commands and other basic functions.Piraha is a language too.But it is very different from other languages.It hasn't numerals,past tense or words for colours.These are things other languages have.So we can say that Piraha language contradicts Universal Grammar in this aspect as it doesn't have grammatical structures common to all other languages.

Anonymous said...

3231040107

(1) İ think that the person who already knows a second language is ready to learn easily a third one.He has cotrasted a kind of system in his mind on how to learn a language different from first language.So this system is used in learning a third one too.But also native language is important because is the point of start.Even when you learn a third language you will refer to your native language.But also a universal grammer is important because it helps you to know the key points of that language:like what forms could probably appear on how can be acquisition order.So in learning a third language İ think both knowing native language and universal grammer can be considered as initial states.
(2) As we know one of the points of the theory of N.Chomsky is that the human brain contains a limited set of rules,for organizing language.And according to universal grammer all the languages of the world have similar characteristics like:all relate sound and meaning in arbitary way,on all languages have similar grammatical categories,all languages can express past time reference,negation,commands ecc.İn front of this theory we have criticism.G.Simpson (representative of criticism) maintain that it is possible for children to learn a language without being born with grammatical rules.The UG theories are simply observations about existing languages,not predications about what is possible in a language.Also we have the language Piraha as an existing example to criticize UG.This language have unusual linguistic features,no grammatical numerals,no color words,no descriptive words,no subordinate clauses,no time and no past!This language make the linguistics rethink about Universal Grammer.

Sezen Arslan said...

1-)All languages are designed in a way that they function in the same way in terms of grammar rules.For instance,all languages have universal and unstable rules such as having pronouns,subjects,verbs and objects.Therefore,we,human beings produce a universal grammar by refering to these all common rules and structures,that is, the language is a universal phenomenon amongst humans and it is a product of the brain.
2-)UG gives us a chance to identify explicitly the state of our IL grammar.Learning a third language after L2,the learner refers to the similarities and differences between L2 and L3 so as to make transfers when necassary during the cognitive process.
3-)The Piraha language,which is about to be extinct,has very limited traits,such as lack of numerals and color words.Therefore,people who try to speak with these Piraha language speakers have had many difficulties in order to communicate with them since they do not have even past time references.So,why is the Universal Grammar got stuck at this point?If each human being has an inborn ability for the language and there are common traits for all universal languages,where is the exception of Piraha languge stemmed from?Well,this is a counterexample that makes the thesis of UG flimsy.At this point,UG lacks giving us a universal tool for universal knowledge of all languages.

ÇAĞRI ERDEN said...

If you know second language and start to third,the initial state changes according to principle that has general features of all languages,and parameter that is the specifict features all languages have.That's why when we start to learn third language,we will analyze first and second language's principle and parameter.When we find the simple and different features,we can decide which is the initial state.If the first language has more principle and lesser parameter,it will be the initial state or vice versa.

2. There are some criticism to universal grammar.For instance;Piriha language is lack of number words, a word for the geometric sense of straight,any color terminology...But according to universal grammar there are features that all languages have.Therefore when we think according to universal grammar why Piraha people do not know these features?
3231050070

Anonymous said...

3231050056...
1)According to universal grammar theory there are features comman to all languages and while acquiring a language we only play with parameters(features that vary across languages).Therefore while learning a third language our initial state is the final state of the first and second language.That is, we have fully-formed grammar knowledge of these languages.By this way one can make transfers and has access to UG.By knowing there are comman features of languages he/she only needs to notice the specific structures of the third language(parameters)and make the appropriate changes.Foreexample;inversion of subjects and verbs.
2)The theory of universal grammar claims that all languages have some comman structures although there are specific variables.it says that all languages have a form for future, past tenses, negation...some linguists criticize these claims of the theory and argue that these generalizations about existing languages aren't valid for all of them.The Piraha language is one of the exeptions.It departs from the features which were thought to be exist in all languages.According to linguists who studied on Piraha people speaking this language don't use words related to past tense.They don't use numbers and subordinate clauses as well.This spare language contradicts the theory of universal grammar that there are basic rules true for all languages.Everett explains this uniqness with the element of culture.for people using Piraha the important thing is what is being experienced now so they don't use past tense forms and they don't need numbers in their everyday lives.It isn't because of that their thinking is slower.

Anonymous said...

1)the initial state is related to the distence between the third language and the previous languages.if the third language have more common with our native language,our starting point would be first language.if the second language have more comman we can make transfers between them.
2)Chomsky called attention to two fundamental facts about language.first,virtually every sentence that a person utters or understand is a brand-new combination of words.therefore the brain must contain a receive program that can build an unlimited set of sentences out of a finite list of words.the second fundamental fact is that children must innately be equipped with a plan common to the grammar of all languages ,a universal grammar-.but we see that piraha people has some differences.no numbers,no name of colours,subordinate clauses..etc.why?don't they have enough capacity?as ı said before Chomsky says that children must innately be equipped with a plan common to the grammars of all languages-UG.if so,why they can not learn them?where is that plan in Piraha people?...3231050020

3231050085 said...

1)According to UG,all languages have similar grammar characteristics,relate sounds and meaning in a largely arbitrary way and can express past time,negation,commands and other basics functions.They are also structured hierarchically.When we examine this theory,we see that it is easier to learn a third language if we know a second language.Because there is no wild grammar,they can affect each other interactively.But it is also important the distance between these languages.If we know a second language, we can learn the third one by referring to our NL and L2.They are our starting point.But also subset principle is important for us.If our third language is subset, we learn it by positive evidence(input).On the other hand if it is superset that time we learn by negative evidence(correction).This is harder than the first one,I think.The initial state is our NL and L2.
2)I tried to explain UG above.According to this theory all human languages have common characteristics such as past time reference,negation,commands... Piraha is also a human language.However it is unusual among the world's languages today.Because it has no numerals.There are apparently only three words that roughly describe quantity, somewhat akin to "a few", "some", and "many".When Everett,a linguist, tried to teach in vain numerals,they cannot even begin to understand the concept of numbers and arithmetic although "Their thinking isn't any slower than the average college freshman," Everett says.Piraha has also no past time reference, no words for colors, no subordinating clause.Because of this language,it is a must to rethink on UG and examine it thouroughly again,I think.

Anonymous said...

_3231050069_
1)The theory underlying UG assumes that languages consist of a set of abstract principles that characterize core grammars of all natural languages.These principles are invariable;that is they are universal as all languages have them.In addition to principles,there are parameters that determine syntatic variability amongst languages.They are specific to only one language.So,when we know a second language and want to learn the third, we should try to learn parameters of the third language firstly.Because,as UG suggests our second and target language share some grammatical rules that are invariable among languages.
2)As I mentioned before,UG assumes that all languages have a common structural basis.But,there are some linguists opposing the UG theory and a language that disproves the theory.It is the Piraha language.It is a language without grammatical numerals,abstract colour words,also there are few kin terms.But,most importantly,the Piraha people hardly use any words associated with time and past tense verb conjugations and they don't use subordinate clauses.So,we can say that if the Piraha don't form subordinate clauses,it isn't possible to assume the uniqueness of human language as UG suggests.

Anonymous said...

I THINK IN SUCH A SITUATION,WE SHOULD NOT FORGET THAT THE LANGUAGE LEARNING IS A SYSTEM AND LEARNING IS A LONG PROCESS.IF YOU KNOW A SECONDTH LANGUAGE AND LEARNING A THIRDTH ONE BE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THE PERIOD IS RELATED WITH EACH OTHER.YOU HAVE A FORM IN YOUR MIND ABOUT HOW TO LEARN A LANGUAGE EASILY WITH YOUR EXPERIENCES.SO THE SECONDTH LANGUAGE WE HAVE HAS MANY BENEFİTS TO THE THIRDTH ONE BEING LEARNED.WE DEVELOP A CERTAIN WAY OF LEARNING MIND AND SOME HYPOTHESES BY THE HELP OF THE FIRST ONE.MAKING TRANSFERS BETWEEN THEM AND SOME LINKS FOUNDED MAKE THE SECONDTH LANGUAGE IMPORTANT FOR THE THIRDTH.BUT OUR NATIVE LANGUAGE IS VERY IMPORTANT,TOO AS IT IS THE MAJOR FACTOR OF OUR LEARNING.AFTER DECIDING ON THE COMMON FEATURES OF THEM,THE INITAL STATES WILL BE OPEN. 2]UG EXPLAINS THE LANGUAGE ACQUISITION IN GENERAL.IT DOES NOT DESCRIBE SPESIFIC LANGUAGES.IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY PREDICTIONS.IT IS GENERALLY ABOUT HOW CHILDREN ACQUIRE LANGUAGES.PIRAHA LANGUAGE CAN BE GIVEN AS AN EXAMPLE AS BEING OPPOSED TO UG BECAUSE PIRAHA DOES NOT HAVE GRAMMATICAL STRUCTURES.IT DOES NOT HAVE NUMBERS,NAMES FOR THE COLOURS,PAST TENSE AND SUBORDINATE CLAUSES SO IT CONTRADICTS WITH THE UG WHICH SAYS ALL LANGUAGES HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON.

Anonymous said...

I THINK IN SUCH A SITUATION,WE SHOULD NOT FORGET THAT THE LANGUAGE LEARNING IS A SYSTEM AND LEARNING IS A LONG PROCESS.IF YOU KNOW A SECONDTH LANGUAGE AND LEARNING A THIRDTH ONE BE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THE PERIOD IS RELATED WITH EACH OTHER.YOU HAVE A FORM IN YOUR MIND ABOUT HOW TO LEARN A LANGUAGE EASILY WITH YOUR EXPERIENCES.SO THE SECONDTH LANGUAGE WE HAVE HAS MANY BENEFİTS TO THE THIRDTH ONE BEING LEARNED.WE DEVELOP A CERTAIN WAY OF LEARNING MIND AND SOME HYPOTHESES BY THE HELP OF THE FIRST ONE.MAKING TRANSFERS BETWEEN THEM AND SOME LINKS FOUNDED MAKE THE SECONDTH LANGUAGE IMPORTANT FOR THE THIRDTH.BUT OUR NATIVE LANGUAGE IS VERY IMPORTANT,TOO AS IT IS THE MAJOR FACTOR OF OUR LEARNING.AFTER DECIDING ON THE COMMON FEATURES OF THEM,THE INITAL STATES WILL BE OPEN. 2]UG EXPLAINS THE LANGUAGE ACQUISITION IN GENERAL.IT DOES NOT DESCRIBE SPESIFIC LANGUAGES.IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY PREDICTIONS.IT IS GENERALLY ABOUT HOW CHILDREN ACQUIRE LANGUAGES.PIRAHA LANGUAGE CAN BE GIVEN AS AN EXAMPLE AS BEING OPPOSED TO UG BECAUSE PIRAHA DOES NOT HAVE GRAMMATICAL STRUCTURES.IT DOES NOT HAVE NUMBERS,NAMES FOR THE COLOURS,PAST TENSE AND SUBORDINATE CLAUSES SO IT CONTRADICTS WITH THE UG WHICH SAYS ALL LANGUAGES HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON.

3231050081 HILAL KAYIKÇI

Anonymous said...

If we already know a second language and start learning a third,what we initial state is that we should remember,all languages share certain features.For instance,each language gramatically uses past and future tenses form.Or subordianete clauses,number,time quantity...such gramatical rules present in all languages.We firstly compare our native language with second one according to its different sides not similiarity and we try to acquire the target language.Of course,we take parametres and principles of the target language into account.According to universal grammar,all languages share certain features.We take this exception into account and we acquire our target language in terms of that.But when we look into Piraha language,this generalization is falsifiable.Because in this language,there are no number,time concept,no words that describe quantity except a few,many,some and no gramatical distinction between singular and plural,even in pronouns.Also its colour terminology,there are two specific words such as light and dark.These people who has this language can not make the gramatical generalization with other languages.Acquiring a second language,for example english,can be difficult.Universal grammar theories always migth be invalid.
3231050094

Anonymous said...

3231040022 EMRULLAH KOCATAŞ
1) When we learn second or third language,we benefit from universal grammar.when we know only mother language,universal grammar is composed of our mother language's principles and parameters.After learned second language,we have developed our UG with the new language's principles and parameters.actually,when talking about UG,we refer it to the common principles and parameters in in languages.And we associate these principles and parameters with the principles and the parameters of the newlanguage.namely when learning third language we benefit from UG;namely the common principles and the parameters in first and second languages.
2)Naom Chomsky claims that all languages have commom points.Namely subject,object,verb,numbers,colours...are generally common in languages.we define them principles and parameters.when human learns a new language,he /she benefit from his UG.He try to make the new language's rules similar to his own UG's rules when he cant comprehend the new rules.A new tribe has been found in Brazil;Piraha Tribe.That tribe and their language deny chomsky's theory.they dont use subordinate clause, colours,numbers.According to Chomsky,human brain has same skills,the brain forms language and its grammar and human is the same all over the world so all language has basic,common rules (principles parameters),we can define them as universal grammar.By discovering that tribe,Chomsky's theory has been more discussable.Piraha people is the same with the other people all over the world in point of brain features and skills.But they dont use numbers ,colours,subordinate clauses.But all languages have to have basic common principles and parameters according to UG.IN that conflict,the idea''the only reason this isn't part of their language is because it is forbidden by their culture namely culture forms language''by Everett is valuable enough to talk about it.By the way culture is being more dominant in SLA than Universal Grammar.3231040022 EMRULLAH KOCATAŞ

Anonymous said...

3231050102 1)my native language is Turkish.I know English also.As a third language I want to learn Chinese.My initial stage will be UG.we are all born with a language acquisition device.By means of this device;we have the capabilitiy of forming language.And so even if I don't know anything about Chinese,because of my language capacity I can learn this language as the same way as I learnt other two languages.And here there are other afctors affecting language learning.One of them is my attitude towards Chinese.I want to learn Chinese because it its estimated to be one of the world's most spoken languages and learning this language will help me in finding jobs in the future.so this factor can help me learn Chinese.The other factorv is relatedness of Chinese to other languages I know.But it is from a totally origin.So I can't make any transfer.But because all languages have the same general principles I can learn by making changes in parameters. 2)UG accepts that all languages in the world are based on general principles and they all have these general rules in their bodies.But there are some deficiencies in this theory.to show them we can give example from piraha peopleiwhen we look at their language;we see that there are no number;descriptivesubordinate clausewords.But UG says all languageshave these general wordsibut in the piraha language the situation changes.this is because in the piraha community;they don't need to use numbers or color words.this can be a sign that language is formed according to the necessities of the communities;not totally to the UG.

Anonymous said...

1)According to UG, if i already know a second language and start learning a third, my initial state is to establish subset and superset relation. If my second language is superset, third language is subset, i have to make correction (negative evidence),on the other hand, if my second language is subset, third language is superset, i have to get input.(positive evidence)
Analogously, an experimental study in University of Iowa investigate the compounding parameter in the L2 Spanish interlanguage of English and French native speakers in light of the Subset Principle and its predictions for the process of L2 development. Results indicate that the learners initially transfer the L1 value and do not start with the subset value of the parameter.
2)According to UG, there are some principles and parameters in every language. Principles are unchanging features of language and parameters are the features that can change in each language. If we are in a neighbourhood which is spoken Turkish, we set parameters of turkish. These similarities and differences help us learning second and third language. However, Piraha language doesn't include all these principles. For example, they haven't got past tense. Because past is not important for them. They live the day, Carpe-diem. Besides, they don't have numbers. Because it is not a necessity in their culture. Altough UG is very comprehensive, it ignores this situation. We have to take consideration culture, life style, purpose of learning second or third language,etc. As a result, beside UG, meaningful input and learning principles are important for learning L2 or L3.
3231050002

Anonymous said...

ADNAN YILMAZ 3231050126
1)according to UG which is an innate and biological element of all languages,there are some features that are typical to all languages such as words, tenses, sounds, subjects, verbs,pronouns etc.however, there are parameters that restrict the usages of these features in a language.for instance, a person cannot put the words of a language in an arbitrary order to build a sentence, inasmuch as the extend to which the word order of that language varies is limited in terms of the grammar and semantic of that language.
while learning a third language, UG is the learner's initial step to learn it, yet the learner does not have direct access to UG but indirect access through NL. secondly,the learner resort to NL and L2 to learn L3.the learner predominantly focuses on similarities and differences between NL/L2 and L3 so as to learn L3 readily.ın addition, the languages' being neutral or specific influences the learner's learning process as well.

2)the piraha languagge lacks numerals, colour words,past time references,kinship words(save the word "baixi" referring to mother and father) etc. nonetheless, all the other languages have these features, which is regarded as an indication of UG.so, ıf UG exists in all languages, why then is the piraha language an exception???IS THERE ACTUALLY UG???
To me,the answer of this question is questionable.NEVERTHELESS, I CAN SAY THAT UG RESEARCHES LACK A VERY SIGNIFICANT THING,NAMELY *******CULTURE*******,WHICH IS THE MOST ESSENTIAL ELEMENT THAT PLAYS AN IMPORTANT ROLE ON THE FORMATION OF A LANGUAGE!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

BURAK GÜR
3231050040
1)Accordıng to the linguists who support the universal grammar, there are two concepts of UG which are principles(related with same features all languages have) and parameters(related with specific features that languages have).so,ıf we know second language and start to learn third, the initial state must be to learn the parameters because there is no good learning princeples but parameters. For instance,ın that way we can learn differences between the second language and third language and knowıng and learnıng dıfferences, we can learn the third language easily with less mistakes!
2)UG claims that all languages have comman structures. There are some criticisms to this claim. To support their criticsms, linguists like Everet gives piraha language as an example. Because linguists generally focuses on what idioms accross the world have in comman. But the Piraha language departs from what were long thought to be essantial features of all languages. This language is claimed to have no relative clauses or gramatical recursion.But this is not clear. If ıt's so, then ıt would be a counterexample to the theory of UG proposed by lınguists like Noam Chomsky, Houser and Fıtch. Whether phonetics, semantics or morphology what exactly makes up this universal grammar is controversial!

Anonymous said...

3231050003
1)If we have the knowledge of a second language and start to learn a third language we make use of the universal grammar,principles shared by all languages, and start to learn this language comparing our existing knowledge.This state can make our learning easier.Investigating principles and parameters is the key.As Chomsky states,infrastructures of all languages are the same but some depends on parameters.And principles of a particular language form its special grammar.When we start to learn a 3rd language we interrogate the diagrams in our mind and we investigate the parameters.If the subject we are trying to learn exists in this parameters(2nd or native language)we are likely to achieve learning easily.
2)On the other hand,there are criticisms;some linguists oppose the universal grammar advocating that UG is not falsifiable, being born with grammatical rules is possible,or smt else.The Piraha language cannot be an example to UG, because unlike the other languages it doesn't have numbers,descriptive words,subordinate clauses,names of colours,past tense.Because there aren't concepts of numbers,for example, in their culture because thereis no need, so there aren't in their minds.Languages are created by culture(as well as affected by UG). So this arguement can make the UG theory weaker.

Anonymous said...

1)If we know second language and start learning third language, second language can help us to learn it easily because according to UG theory there are principled and parameters between languages. All languages have similar grammar characteristics. What we are doing is determining the principles and then acquiring specific structures of third language.When we get specific structure of third language we can make transfer some grammatical structure by making suitable changes.If it is subset we can get it easily but if it is superset it is a bit difficult for us to learn L3.
2)Universal grammar theory clams that some comman structures are valid in all languages but when we look at the pirahas we couldn't see these comman structures. there are no numerals, no quantıty words, past time references and subordinate clauses. tehey use easy grammar end pastv eventsis not important for them, that's why they do not use past tense. Everett wants to teach countıng to themthey couldn't learn it.Everett says 'their thinking is not any slower than the average collage freshman' so why canT learn countingAt this poin we reaxamine the UG theory. Because this language contradict to this theory. Culture is another important lement for languages, we can get it by lookıng at pirahas
3231050008

3231050076 said...

1-There are two variables influencing initial state:transfer(the availability of the first language grammar) and access to universal grammar.Therefore while learning a third language, our initial state depends on how transfer and access are provided.The common features of L2 and L3 facilitate L3 learning.Also,subset principle plays an important role in learning process.Going from subset to superset requires only positive evidence and this feature can change the initial state.
2-According to Chomsky,UG is a biological capacity.(LAD)Human brain contains a limited set of rules for organizing language.But we see that Piraha language contradicts this view.Although there are time expressions,past tense usage,numbers and colours in many languages,Piraha language doesn't contain those language features.This is the result of their life styles.The difference between UG theory and Piraha language stems from over-generalization of UG.As Sampson criticizes ,grammatical generalizations made are simply observations about existing languages and not predictions about WHAT IS POSSIBLE IN LANGUAGE.

Anonymous said...

when we start to learn third language,we will analyze first and second language's principle.this analysis results explain that first and second language's principles,grammar rules and some words help us learning third language.for example in my second language english the words cat,calender almost same with my third language words katze,kalender.this is a universal grammar.
universal grammar is criticized. this criticism tell us some language may different the other languages for example piraha.ıts no connection to other living languages.The Pirahã language has a different linguistic features like lack of number words.there arent any linguistik feature like this and this is the criticism for universal grammar.
3231050034

3231050010 said...

1) while learning a third language;of course our initial state is universial grammar which includes principles and parameters.as you know principle means universal structures in all languages.so; while learning a third one, the first thing which we must do is to make a deduction from our second language structure.for example in english we see relative clauses so we deduct there must be a same rule in the third one.then of course parameters.but in parameters we see that there are different structures in each language.of course this also helps us while learning third one.
2)As understood from the article we see that the piraha is a very different language in all ways.if we wanna order them:
lack of numbers,only 3 pronouns,no abstract color words,no grammatical distiction between singular and pluralusage of suffixes and lack of subordinate clauses...normally as chomsky said in universal grammar hypothesis there must be the same structures in all kanguages but in this language we see the opposite.this language has many many lacks in all areas.so here we see that universal grammar hypothesis is not universal really:)

Anonymous said...

1) If we already know a second language and start learning a third , the initial state is the relationship between the native,the second and the third languages.Our native language has certainly an effect on our second language by showing similar and different features of the two languages.When we start learning a third language,we are affected by the languages we know again.In this case,we go on looking for the similarities and differences among the languages.While we are learning a third language,if we need to learn things that are already available in our first and second languages,we do this by selecting them ; yet,if we need to learn things that are not available in our languages,we have to do this by completely adding these new things to our knowledge of the third language.As a conclusion,the initial state is the final state of our first and second languages.
2) According to Universal Grammar,all languages have a common structural basis and certain features.It is the system of principles,conditions and rules that are elements or properties of all human languages.It is an innate language facility that limits the extent to which languages can vary.That is,it specifies the limits of a possible language.And,each language,syntactically,uses particles to form future and past tenses,and multiple negation to deny or negate.
On the other hand,there is a human language called "Piraha"in our world which departs from what were long to be essential features of all languages with its really different features.For example,Piraha language has no grammatical numbers,not even "one" or "two",only has three words that roughly describe quantitiy somewhat akin to "a few","some" and "many" ; no abstract color words other than terms for "light" and "dark" ; extremely limited clause structure ; no subordinate clauses ; no past tense verb conjugations.
Taking all these into consideration,Universal Grammar is criticised as there are languages in the world which do not have the definite elements and properties such as past tense conjugations and subordinate clauses.
To conclude,this question is asked for the Universal Grammar : "If all languages in the world have certain elements,why do Piraha language does not have past tense conjugations or subordinate clauses then ? Is not it a human language ? ".
3231050074 Meryem Simge Çengel

Anonymous said...

1)According to Universal Grammar,there are many features that are common to all languages.If we want to learn a new language,we are only interested in parameters.Parameters are certain linguistic features that vary across languages.It's easier for us to learn a third language if we already know a second language.Because there are similarities in the grammar of the languages.Namely,if we want to learn third language,our initial state is the combination of our our native language and our second language I think.
2)According to the theory of Universal Grammar there are features that are common to all languages.But some linguists criticise that theory.Because according to these linguists,that theory isn't valid for all languages.Piraha is a good example of that.Because in Piraha language people don't use numbers,words for colors,subordinating clauses.They don't use words that are about past as they don't give importance to past,the important thing for them is present tense so they don't use past tense.
As understood from these examples,Piraha language contradicts the theory of Universal Grammar.I think Universal Grammar theory must be reexamined.
3231050068

Anonymous said...

1.If we want to learn a third language,the initial state is that we should know the target language has possible rules such as:syntax,morpheme,sound,and so forth.And according to syntatical rules,we know that it can have some negative or positive or question form.Besides of these,each word has specifig meaning in sentence or refers to another word in a sentence. that is,we know generally some things,at the same time,in the third language to know the general similarities and differences between L2 and L3 is usefull to know how we will learn about it. Further more, we know that languages have parameter and principle we initially will analys these to give decision that what is the common differences and similarities between L2 and L3.
2.According to universal grammar, all languages have the same grammar rules.that children don't know any grammar rules when they are born, disprove that we can generally mention about UG. piraha people, unlike other nations who have relations with world, don't named the number, only give the meaning by some sounds. Also they don't know the name of colors, the meaning and the structure of tenses.
İn other word; they learn the languege by the culture. So, we can say that the piraha people's language condradicts UG. 3231050046

Anonymous said...

i wish i had not read the text about piraha. if so this question would be easier. i would say something about UG, LAD and chomsky. that is all. but our hero chomsky failed now. if i am a human, one person in piraha is so. he has no or a little UG. for ex: he does not know number. how can he learn one two three four.... this concept is not avaible in his mind. or so.when we do a simple induction we can only say we don't know the answer of first question. the most complex search or theory is done by chomsky we know but even it is refutable. he worked all his life but ....
2. piraha has no UG. so this is swearing for chomsky. all people all over the world saw that chomsky is a liar. let's start a campaign against chomsky. don'T read his book even the book consisting his expressions.
ohh only joke hey chomsky don't afraid. we are thankfull to you but it is time to take a rest for you.
3231050038 said those

Anonymous said...

1)What is the initial state While learning your 3rd language is about UNİVERSAL GRAMMAR.UG is a theory Which assumes that all languages have a common basis and that language is acquired by being born with grammatical rules.According to UG,As languages include principles that are invariable,this shows that your native language,2nd language and 3rd language can resemblance in some ways.This also explains you have little to learn in your new language What is probably PARAMETERS that vary among languages.By realizing the similarities in your 3rd language to your two languages will reduce the task of learning.That gives the information on Why UG limits grammars of languages being learned.

2)Why the language of Piraha people refutes the theory UG can be easily perceived if you know the unusual trait of it.The unusual traits that they hardly use past tense or any words associated with time,have no terms for numbers,are not aware of exact colours except from "DARK" and "LİGHT",don't use subordinate clauses are difficult to deny for linguists Who point out the accuracy of UG.If UG was a completely correct theory,Piraha people did not have these unusual properties, and would learn numbers after the scientist tried to teach them.It is very hard for them to not only learn a specific language,but also a trivial part of any language.Apart from this,Why Piraha language does not constain the influence of innate mechanism adds proof to inconsistency of UG.
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Anonymous said...

1)According to UG all languages in the world have common structures in terms of grammer such as pronouns,subjects,verbs tenses.There are two concepts parameters and principles.in this term parameters and principles can answer this question.principles refer to general features parameter refer to specific structures.while we are learning third language we will analyzes differences and similarities between L3 and L2.In other word our initial state will be resemblance between L3 and L2,NL.
Whichever our subset or superset is,
our language learning result would change according to this principle.distance between them will decide our transfers between them.

2)According to UG;all languages have some comman structures such as tenses,subordinating clauses.linguists criticize these claims of the theory and argue that these generalizations about existing languages aren't valid for all of them.we can see this fact when we look piraha language.It doesn't have past tense words of numbers,subordinating clauses.They have no time concept.Piraha weakens the validity of UG

3231050012

Anonymous said...

1)When we learn second or third language,we benefit from universal grammar.According to universal grammar,all languages have a common structure basis.There are a finite set of fundamental principles that come to all languages.So all languages are alike in some ways.we are all born with a language acquisition device.By means of this device;we have the capabilitiy of forming language.our background information effects our initial stage.
2)Piraha language doesn't have numbers,name of colurs,subordinate clauses,past tense and in this language oly three pronouns exist.Acccording to UG all languages have something in common such as subordinate clauses,numbers,colours,syntax, pronunciation etc.There is a contradiction between this situation and Noam Chomsky, Houser, Fıtch's ideas.This is questionable!
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Anonymous said...

3231050009
when we start to learn second language our native language will be effective.we will try to find and understand similarities and differences between these two languages.then when we try to learn third language we will try to find similarities and differences between our second language and third language.in that our initial state for learning third language will be the second language we learned.according to universal grammar all languages have syntax,verbs,adjectives,pronounciation,words, tenses, sounds, subjects,pronouns etc.so if we start to learn another language according to UG we will think about the rules of second language.if the languages we are learing have similarities our learning will be easier.for example according to superset princible if we had second language which has numbers as 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 and triying to learn third language which doesnt have same numbers as 1,3,5,7,9 our learning this third language will not be so hard.because we will use the information which we already have.but if contrast situation occurs this time our learning third language will be hard.
2)There is criticism for UG,because it says that all child borns with language acquisition device(according to chomsky) and all languages have syntax,verbs,propositions,tenses etc...but in the example of piraha there are not numbers colours,past tenses.in that sense we can not say that piraha isnt a language because of its not having past tense,colours,numbers.it is language and there are some people who speak this language...

nilay 3231050062 said...

[1]
First of all,learning a third language after the second one depends on the differences and similarities between two languages.Of course,it mustn't be forgetten that the native language is also effective on learning other foreign languages.At that point universal grammar is an evidence that parameters and principles help us learn the languages.For example,my second language is English and I have been attending to a German course for nearly two months.I've learnt so many things in German without having difficulties.When I think the reason of this,I find that German and English have similar grammatical rules and both of these languages come from the same language family.In spite of these,there are some different forms too.For instance,German's most words are used after articles which are according to being feminin or masculin.Also,there is no article in my own language,but my second language helps me learn the third one better and easier.I mean,this is my initial state and even really a real experience!
[2]
Universal grammar is criticised by some linguistics.One of these people is Geoffrey Sampson.The opposite theory of universal grammar is the possibility to learn a language without being born of children with grammatical rules.When we look into the Piraha language,we see that UG theory can be disproved by some specific distinctions of this language.The Piraha's using no grammatical number,no subordinate clause or no descriptive word makes the Piraha language unique and significant.Because,this state proves that all languages don't have a common structural basis.Apart from these,the belief that we have no evidence of innate linguistic knowledge contradicts with principles and parameters.To sum up,creation of language by the culture is the opposite theory of UG and the evidence is Piraha language.

Anonymous said...

3231050088

To start with, the language you will learn as others has some similar and different features to your native or second languages. First of all, while learning the language, step by step, you should match the similarities between the third and your other languages. For example, if the third language has relative clause and your native language is insufficient to match this structure then, you should perceive this using the second one. At this point , the UG has the most significant role as this theory involves the similar characteristics in all languages. But this theory isn’t completely perfect or flawless. According to this theory, as the human brain contains a limited set of rules for organizing the structures, all languages have a common structural basis. However, there are some oppositions to this theory. For instance, there aren’t any numerals available in Piraha , instead there are quantity words like “many”. There is a truth that it’s the lack of need explaining both the counting ability and as a result, corresponding vocabulary. If it is only related with the ability of brain then this discrepancy won’t ocur. Also, female uses seven consonant and three vowels in Piraha while male uses one more consonant. Aside from this, there are also few specific kin terms or there is no abstract word available like color other than dark or light. To sum up, I want to say that there can be different characteristics and absent concepts in languages while compared with each other stemming from the lack of need, cultural differences or living conditions.

meryem yeltekin said...

1)When we have a second language,we benefit from our NL;I mean we make transfers from our mother tongue to the target language in most cases.And when we begin to learn a third language,our reliance becomes heavily on the first foreign language we have,i.e. L2.To be able to make transfer between languages,there should be some resemblences in the characteristics of the languages.In learning an L3,the availability of the first foreign language's grammar plays a big role.The learner tries to find the similarities and differences between the parameters of L2 and L3.UG is also essential in learning a third language.If you have two languages,you start acquiring some qualities and knowledge of the languages in general.According to UG,there are some norms and structural basis that exist commonly in all languages worldwide.As we know this,we keep trail of finding similar features in L2 to be able to learn L3.
2)Firstly,I want to mention about the positive criticism to UG by referring to creole languages that have been composed by several different societies with their specific features in terms of background and culture.These languages have formed their own language system by using some common linguistic qualities.However,Piraha language contradicts with the theory of UG from the point of view that it doesn't have the central characteristics of the other languages.As the Pirahis don't give importance to abstract thought,connection to past and future,they only live for the time they live in and have limited the language usage of themselves.A society which has no history,tales myth,imagination and therefore art means that in fact,it lacks a culture.With these lacking elements that construct culture,language also becomes limited and deprived of the shared linguistic features of other alive languages in the world.Piraha language has no need for numerals,no usage of subordinate clauses,no color definition,etc.Hence,we can say that it even doesn't have its exact parameter to form a language that it would be nonsense to expect it to be part of principles of languages.
In opposition to Chomsky's UG theory,as we see,the Pirahis can stand on living with isolation from other living things,with their peculiar language and lifestyle.Without some basic principles,language learning can be accomplished.

Anonymous said...

1.According to universal grammar,every language has some common grammar rules and different common specialities.If we want to learn a foreign language,the similarities between native language and target language are important.If they belong to the same language family,learning will be easier.So I think the initial state must be teaching of the similarities between NL and TL,not second language.because we think and express ideas in native language firstly and it is a natural habit.
2.Language is related with culture,habits,expectations of the society.For instance,if we talk about a figter and primitive society,we could find lots of words mean "war" in their language.If Piraha people are not interested in trade and they are an istolated country,the absence of number is normal.It is the basic difference between languages.Because societies produce their words and style according to their necessities
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Anonymous said...

1_)We can attribute learning a 3rd language besides L2 to UG theory as our starting point in terms of principles and parameters.The theory explains the common structural basis of all languages.It claims there are fundamental principles which are true for all human languages,and it explains the varieties among them with differing parameters.To illustrate,in all languages there's a subject in sentence structure(this is a principle),and there occurs the difference when it comes to the subject's place in the sentence(and this is parameter).In other words UG hypothesis bears the idea of some minimalized characteristics of languages in order to look at learning 2nd,3rd,... languages from the broadest view.
2_)The criticism to Universal Grammar mainly states that it is not obligatory to be born with grammatical rules in order to learn a language.And there is also a criticism to grammatical generalizations made in UG,because the people opposing the Universal Grammar argue that they are simple and unfounded.The Piraha Language supports these criticisms in certain aspects.Firstly a minimal system can hardly be found in Piraha Language and it doesn't belong to any other language families.It has such an unusual feature that there aren't any words or concepts for numbers.In this sense,the UG theory is somehow disproved,as the argued generalization fails here.Another unusual characteristic of the language is the lack of subordinate clauses.When we think with the rationale of UG,the presence of a word that link two or more clauses is a universal feature.So,the absence of it reveals another supporting to the criticism.
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Anonymous said...

3231050052
1)Principles are common ta all languages.But parameters are set according to the requirements of the language being acquired.If the learner is going from super set(bulgarian)to subset(Turkish),it requires the person to be corrected.Because principles and parameters do not to be learned by exposure to language.Rather,exposure to language merely triggers the parameters.In other words,if the person is going from subset to superset ,it requires them take input only.For example,if the person knows the Turkish as native language and the English as a second language,the initial stage will be the interlanguage’s final state.While learning relative clause/syntax,they will
concept of numbers. And Everett attains this idea : The language is created by the culture. For example, because of Piraha's carpe diem culture,make use of engilish or while learning verb conjugatian the starting point will be the Turkish.So,the structure to be used defines the inital state within the interlanguage system and requires the learner to have some prior knowledge.

2) Universal grammar suggests that all languages have a common structural basis and suggests that children learn a language being born with grammatical rules. Parameters determine syntactic variability amongst languages. For example, a language's being head-first or head-last is a parameter. And Principle is said to be true for all human languages according to Universal Grammar.UG focuses on what idioms across the world have in common.But,Piraha language departs from what were long thougt to be essential features of all languages.For example,there are no abstract color words other than terms for the light and dark. They don't use subordinate clauses. Also they have no grammatical numerals, because they are lacking of counting ability and corresponding vocabulary which is explained by the lack of need. Because they have no words for numbers, they aren't even capable of understanding the concept of numbers.And Everett attains this idea:The language is created by the culture.For example,because of Piraha’s carpe diem culture,complicated communication to the past isn’t allowed…limiting language accordingly.

Anonymous said...

3231050036 said that..
1.If ı already know a second language and start learning a third,the initial state that ı have to do is to understand what is universal grammar and how can ı use this thing into learning a third one.But it is easier to learn a third language than to learn a second language because a person who learned a second language can understand easier what is universal grammar means and theoretical knowledge leaves its place to realised knowledge.so the first thing is to understand the aim of universal grammar and could make some inferences from the other two languages that we know.for example, I know english and recently ı have been learning german and ı can easily say that ı didn't have a force to learn this language because of universal grammar and associations which english grammar assosiates me helped me learn easier
2.According to Chomsky all languages have similar rules such as subject,object,verb,number,colours and these parameters help them to create a universal grammar but in piranha language we can not see these features so there is no universal grammar can be seen in this language so this peculiarity blocks this language to create a culture,because culture can only be existed by a language..

3231050090 said...

1)In my opinion,the starting point of both L3 and L2 is the same.The sets of rules in brain which allows to acquire and learn language is also operative when learning L3.L3learners have accees to the UG both by means of their NT and L2.Before learning L3,when these learners startlearning L2 they realize the UG principles and parameters.They see some similiarities ,in this case UG principles.And when moved on to L3they start to contruct their new system by learning the UG parameters which is different in this L3 and exposure to this language provides correct settings.
2)The UG supports that all languages have a common structional basic and share certain features.But when we look at the piraha language we see something which contradicts with this theory.Piraha people dont live in complete genetic isolation but their languages have some really pecular features.For example the Piraha language has no numbers,hardly any word of time,no colors ,no subordinate clauses.But according to the UG every language should have these common features.Another thing that we must pay attention is that when tried to teach them to count, they couldnt achive.But according to the UG they would learn.Because it was moving from a subset to superset.Why this theory doesnt work in that case?Because it relies on nativitism stronly in relation to language learning.

Anonymous said...

1)In my opinion,for a person who already knows a second language and starts learning a third the initial state is the second language.Studies about whether learners learning a third language utilize their L1 or L2 language prove this.For example,Vildomec made the observation that in early third language production functors such as prepositions,articles and conjuctions tend to come from the L2 not from the native language.This may occur even when the two languages are not phonetically similar.Another research by Stedje had the same result.Stedje who examined Finnish learners of German as a third language with Swedish as the second found that function words predominantly transferred from the L2 rather than the L1.
2)Universal Grammar is a theory that suggests language consists of a set of abstract principles yhat characterize core grammars of all natural languages.In addition to the invariable principles (ig:all languages have them),are parameters that vary across all languages.Nevertheless,this theory doesn't claim that all languages have the same grammer or that all humans are programmed with a structure that underlies all surface expressions of human language.Rather,universal grammar proposes a set of rules that would explain how children acquire their language(s) or how they contruct valid sentences of their own language.Although the idea of universal grammar is supported by some,there are also some who criticize it.For example,UG is supported by creole languages which were formed when African and European societies came together by virtue of the fact that such languages all share certain features.However,a linguist, Geoffrey Sampson who maintains that it is possible for children to learn a language without being born with grammatical rules believes that UG theories are not falsifiable and argues that the grammatical generalizations made are simply observations about existing languages and not predictions about what is possible in languages.Piraha Language also seems to disprove the UG.Whether phonetics,semantics or morphology.. what makes up the UG is controversial.At its core,however,is the concept of recursion,which is defined as replication of a structure with its single parts.Without it,there wouldn't be any mathematics,philosophy, computers or symphonies.And there wouldn't be any subordinate clauses.As a principle of the UG,subordinate clauses may seem as an indispensable part of all human languages but Piraha people don't use subordinate clauses.For example, instead of saying:"When i've finished eating,i would like to speak to you."they say:"I finish eating,i speak with you."What's more there are only 3 pronouns in Piraha Language and unlike most languages,there is no grammatical distinction between singular and plural even in pronouns.There are not colour terms except dark and light,no future or past structures and thus no myths.The reason for this may be that Piraha culture is based on the idea "Live here and now."In Piraha Language also there is no references of numbers.As Piraha people don't need numbers and thus don't have words referring to numbers they don't get the concept
of numbers.This supports Sapir's hypohesis that "We cannot perceive what we don't have words for."and this may be evidence to the idea that the Piraha Language is created by culture.
3231050065.

Anonymous said...

gtkkl

Anonymous said...

1)When we start to learn a third language with knowledge of second language,firstly we apply to UG and make use of NL and L2 we know.Though there are similarities in all languages, some diffirences are seen between languages.These similarities and diffirences constitute the principles and parameters which are part of genetically UG.As we deal with learning L3 we look for if subjects and structures of three languages are similiar(NL L2 L3).Also the condition of languages plays an effective role in acquisition of L3.If your NL and L2 is subset it is positive evidence,that is the structures and the sentences of L3 provide the input to the learners which are known as positive evidence.However L3 is subset it causes a negative evidence.Because it requires correction of the knowledge of languages known before.
2)Universal grammer is a theory which claims that all languages share essential principles of grammer.But as for Piraha language, it has a number unusual linguistics features in terms of UG.The statement of theory UG that a set of principles characterize grammars of all languages doesn't coincide with Piraha language, as this language is very different from others.But people using it can carry on their livings without difficulty.It is because of their culture's features.Maybe they find dealing with past and numbers nonsense.So generalization about existing languages and features of piraha language debilitate the theory UG.
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Anonymous said...

When I acquired FL, my starting point was UG, and I made use of the device with which I was equipped from birth, namely LAD. At the age of fourteen to fifteen I started learning my SL, English. What I made use of was L2 input and my FL, which was shaped by UG before. And then I started learning German, my L3. Here both the L1 and the L2 were effective with the L3 input(see the garaphic below.). I hypothesize that as children cannot wholly acquire NL once the critical period has passed, as in the example of Katie, so can adults never wholly acquire a SL as they have also passed this critical period. And after this critical period UG loses its effect or converges with L1, extending its limits with each language that is learnt.

Depending on therotical argumantetion rather than empirical evidence, UG faces with criticisms. As in the example of Piraha people, a UG principle may be missing in a language although this theory stipulates a-never-changing-principle-system across all languages. But I see this as an extraordinary situation and there may be some different elements that can account for this violation of priciples.3231050050

Anonymous said...

When I acquired FL, my starting point was UG, and I made use of the device with which I was equipped from birth, namely LAD. At the age of fourteen to fifteen I started learning my SL, English. What I made use of was L2 input and my FL, which was shaped by UG before. And then I started learning German, my L3. Here both the L1 and the L2 were effective with the L3 input(see the garaphic below.). I hypothesize that as children cannot wholly acquire NL once the critical period has passed, as in the example of Katie, so can adults never wholly acquire a SL as they have also passed this critical period. And after this critical period UG loses its effect or converges with L1, extending its limits with each language that is learnt.

Depending on therotical argumantetion rather than empirical evidence, UG faces with criticisms. As in the example of Piraha people, a UG principle may be missing in a language although this theory stipulates a-never-changing-principle-system across all languages. But I see this as an extraordinary situation and there may be some different elements that can account for this violation of priciples.3231050050
violation of priciples.3231050050

3231050014 said...

All languages have principles and parameters according to UG.Principles are common all languages but parameters are determining factor in languages.So parameters are important in learning a third language, i think.We can learn a third language easily if there are similar parameters between languages.Because language relatedness makes easy to learn.We mix our knowledges what we know about NL and L2 .I can give an example,all we know.When we learn Bulgarian we benefit from Turkish and English; in relative clauses we benefit from Englih, when we don't use subject in the sentence we benefit from Turkish.So,learning Bulgarian is easier than learning Chinese.
There are two languages,for example.The first has 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 and the second one has 2,4,6,8,10.When we learn the second we don't hear use of 1,3,5,7,9.So we use our superset system until provided us feedback.But if we learn the first one we notice from the input that there is new information to learn-1,3,5,7,9-.Thus we can say that moving from a subset system to a superset system is easier,it requires only input.

As for the second question, according to UG all languages have similar principles(for example all sentences have subject).But it is thougth that grammatical generalizations are simply observations about languages.But as for Piraha language,it disproves UG.Piraha people can't count.none of them can learn to count as well.Their language has no numbers, colors,subordinate clauses.(They don't need numbers,they don't use them).So their language is shaped by their culture,way of life.All languages are shaped according to needs of people using them,aren't they ?


Thank You.
Nurullah Yüzügüleç

Anonymous said...

1)if we are eager to learn a third language,our initial state shoul be to build the basement of third language with the help of our first and second languages.we apply to parameters of those languages, perceive differrent perspectives to the languages and later we apply to principles of language acquisition mechanism in our mind.firstly, we should begin with learning differences between two languages and later in our mind we create new relationships to make easier perception between them.and at the final stage principles and language acquisition device in our mind automatically leads us.
2)at all stages of language acquisition subject we met the theory of innatist approach that each child is born with a LAD.beside this we learnt that there is a universal grammar it means there are general features of languages all languages have something in common so speed and success of a language is similar nearly everywhere.all languages consist of same linguistic element such as tenses,clauses,question marks,numbers,phonology..etc.but we see a piraha language example which rejects this UG theory. because Pirahã is unusual among the world's languages today in having no numerals,past tense and names of colours.so how couldn't these people learn these if UG has same characteristics for all languages.
3231050033 said....

Anonymous said...

1)when we start to learn third language after learning second language I think,in such a situation the initial state is some common grammatical rules in SLA and in NL.These can be syntax,pronunciation,clause or etc.We can say our initial state is related to L2 and NL.We can contribute some similarities and some systemmical connection in NL and in SLA to our third language we are trying to learn.In addition to this our grammatical past experiences certainly affect third language acquisition process.
2)Universal grammar is a grammatical system which all languages have the same rules.There is an idea called critism that is opposite to UG.Critists say that itis possible for a children to learn a language without being born with grammatical rules.Besides that Piraha is alanguage which has no grammatical rules,structures,colours or no similar things related to UG.And this situation makes us rethink about UG.
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Anonymous said...

3231050001 said....
1)The inital state when we are about to learn a third language is to make regeneralizations, reformulate and reconstruct the grammar structures for the third language as addition to our knowledge of first and second language.in the first and second language we are aware of parameters(certain linguistic features that vary across languages)and principles(invariable linguistic features across languages).in this term we benefit from both first and second languages and beside this UG in our mind makes it easier to learn a third one.the differences in first and second languages especially help us mostly.for example knowing both prepositions and postpositions gives us the occasion of not having difficulty in meeting a new form.briefly first and second languages are basement of the third one.
2)Universal grammar is a set of innate principles common to all languages.this is an antibehaviorist theory and supports that all languages have same characteristics and everybody has same LAD.all languages for example has syntax,numbers morphology,colour names,concept of times,pronouns,clauses..etc.But we see an exception statement in the language of pirahas.because,their language doesn't include past tense,name of colours and numbers, There are apparently only three words that roughly describe quantity, somewhat akin to "a few", "some", and "many." There is no grammatical distinction between singular and plural, even in pronouns There is little distinction between individuated quantities and mass quantities, although this in and of itself is not so uncommon among languages. It is not thought to be possible to distinguish between, for example, one big fish and several small fish. However, it might well be the case that researchers simply have not yet learned how to make the distinction.ok ,who wants to describe this situation to me?or will u simply tell me "they are not human".

Anonymous said...

1)The initial state of third language is related to analysing some principles and parameters of NL and L2.Principle refers to invariablities that is they are universal as all language have.But parameter refers to spesific features that all languages have.When we analyse this,we realise similarities and differences between NL and third language or L2 and third language.As you know subset is important.when third language is subset,it is learned by positive evidence.But if it is superset,itis learned by correction.
2)Universal grammar proposes a set of rules.According to UG,all language have syntax,adverb etc,and UG claims grammatical generalization.Bsome linguists oppose the UG.It is possible for children to learn a lnguage without being born with grammatical rules.
Piraha is a language which has very limited traits.This language is different from other languages.It hasn't numerous,past time references or colour words.As you know according to UG all language have these,but Piraha is a language and hasn't these.This language contradicts with UG.
3231050059

Anonymous said...

Initial state which is about nature of the linguistic knowledge with which learners begin the second language acquisition process.Here is two views about this.Fist one is fundamental difference hypothesis and second one is Access to UG hypothesis.These are different from each other.Fist one which argues that what happens in child language acquisition is not the same as what happens in adult second language acquisition.The second one which argues if innate language constrains the grammar which is the same way with second language acquisition.The child’s native language and adult’s second language are different.Because child learns that language to utter his needs firstly ungrammatically he speaks.The other native speakers of that language teach him the correct form of the language (which is positive evidence ).The adult learns that language among social reasons,motivation(equally or not),negative evidence,general failure,importance of instruction…During the learning of the language adult makes strings of words like native language which are not grammatical for the second language(negative evidence).
These are some experts who criticize the UG.Geoffrey Sampson is one of them,who maintains that it is possible for children to learn a language without being born with grammatical rules.He gives The Piraha Language as an example to improve his thoughts that language has no number words.
The other criticism is from developmental psychologist Michael Tomasello has argued that there is no evidence of innate knowledge in the early utterences of children.
I think,these criticisms are not impressive Universal Grammar is only a theory which is not a rule so it could has some missing points in spite of this UG is commonly true.
3265050009

Anonymous said...

3231050083 said,

1-When you want to learn a different language it affected from languages learned before.If second or first languages structures similar to third language it will be easier to learned it because of similiraties of sentences adjectives adverbs etc.but every language has specific and particular functions and structures.According to UG there are similiraties languages grammar with each other.These are such as sentences adverbs subordinate sentences noun clauses numbers syntax pronouns etc.We developed a hipotesis about third language by looking at second language's rules.For instance,ıf there is adjectives in second language we hope to find it in third language.While learned third language the initial state is the final state of the first and secon language.That is like UG that theory claim third language grammar structures familiar with first and second language so we try to shape third language according to first and second language.
2-The theory of universal grammar clais that all languages have common structures and use of them similar with one another een though there are specific and particular variables.According ther theory evry language have got sentences numbers noun clauses tenses etc.however this generalization not valid for every languages such as Pirahalanguage that Pirah people don't use numbers and subordinate clauses when they communicate or tell about somethings.This is a evidence contrary to UG and also teach us every language has specific structures we can't make generalization about languages and prove us UG doesn't valid true basic theory.The Piraha people don't use numbers because of need of their culture but this not mean Piraha language lower and worthless than other languages.

Anonymous said...

1) As we start to learn a third language already knowing an other second one and naturally native one, the initial state of the third is supposed to be the universal grammar which is mainly structured by our native language and modificated and enhanced by our second one. Moreover, the superset-subset situations of the native language and the second language, also affect the initial state of the third. I think if the 3rd is in the subset position of 2nd for example but not the native language, its initial state is more likely to be in a position more closer to the native language, or just the opposite. On the other hand, according to what i can get from the linguists' statements about universal grammar, principles are already present in our UG (i think they would be more rafined because they existed as a combination of NL and 2nd language) apart from their parameters and the setting of new parameters for the 3rd one will be easier. We can embody the process in this sample: Anyone can learn how to drive in both a two-laned motorway and a four-laned one but he has to be more careful to keep the car on the way (in other words it will be more compelling to do it) in the two-laned one than the four-laned.

2)As to criticize the UG by example of Pirahã people, the Pirahã language has a number of unusual linguistic features seem to be unusual when we compare their language with the rest of the languages of our modern time. As far as i learnt from wikipedia, their lifestyle is quite different from any other culture. I think they don't care full particulars of the environment. They can't count but they express the countability in quantities for example. For my part, in a deeper view, i think the features which are identified as unusual and/or unique are just the primitive, general and incomplex versions of ours. Their features may be also developed in time, but it happened in a different way apart from ours probably because of their insulated life from outer world. In sum, it can not be solely a base for an anti-thesis to confront universal grammar thesis in my opinion. It is an exceptional situation.

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Anonymous said...

3231050079 said...
1)In my opinion it is your access point to Universal Grammar.Because your native language is not enough for you to access Universal Grammar.But when you learned a second language you can compare your native language with your second language.Than you see that both languages have some kind of syntax,clause structure,pronouns,adverbs,adjectives etc.While learning third language you can make the same coparison between the second and the third this time.So that i think it makes easier learning the third language.There is also subset,superset relation between them.If your third language is superset,you require information only available from the input.But if your third language is subset you only require additional information such as correction or some prior knowledge.We can give the example about numbers in the course book for this.I think this is also an important point because it makes it easier or more difficult.
2)The theory underlying UG is that language consists of a set of abstract principles that characterize core grammar of all natural languages.And all languages have some kind of syntax,clause structure,pronouns,adverbs,adjectives etc.But when we look at Piraha language we can see that it does not have some common characteristics of other languages.For example there is no grammatical numerals,no words associated with time and past tense,there is only three descriptive words.So UG is not falsifiable.It makes generalizations about existing languages.If there are some other languages as Piraha Language that means that there is a serious problem with UG.Yet we can not say that such languages are not real languages because according to Daniell Everett Piraha People'sthinking is not any slower than the average collage freshmen.Also they do not exactly live in a genetic isolation,they mix with people from surrounding.That means that they can communicate.

Anonymous said...

1-)
In my opinion universal grammer is a good system for language aducation because it is useful while learning extra languages.Each language has its own system and each has general rules.Languages which have same families have paralled rules and there are similiraties in that family.while learning third language,second language would be usable to learn easily the third language but the second and the third language must be from the same language family.Forexample,when ı was at high school there was Germany lesson and ı learned it easily because English was my second language and Germany was third languge so there were lots of similarities between these languages and ı could compare these two languages as a result see the similarities.Both of them are Europen language and they had affected each other while they occured.The world is big but people are social and affect each other,communities affect others so they added their cultures or their languages form communities to communities and as a result of this there are similarities between languages.ıf a language is spoken by lots of people it cant be random so each language a system(which are spoken by lots of people)and universal grammer is occured because of this.
2)
According to Chomsky,all languages have systems,structure or rules and this theory is general but we cant assume Piraha as a general because it is extra ordinary.Piraha has subjective situation because it is not affected by another culture so Piraha occured by its own.Piraha is a natural language and the people who speak Piraha dont know other cultures and other languages so they didnt affected by others.But it has some rules according to itself so we can accept it as a universal but not effectively or not fully universal grammer.ıf ı want to learn piraha as a language firstly ı look its structure and there are some rules at this natural language so why this language cant be a universal grammer?
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Anonymous said...

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In my opinion, learning 2.3.... language is easy, even if they are diffrent.We can find some reasons, thinking the concept 'human'.Each person has a few generaal characteristics.Being ready to learn and a social creature,having same process in growing up...(I write these to tell relation between creation and human)We have biological sufficiency and just need to have the thinking style of native speaker.So, whether a language is superset is partly important.(Being sperset or subset help mostly while learning vocabulary)Aims determine everthing.Don't think about just being resolute, hard-working.If someone wants to learn chinese after english, he\she will not probably be in need of other languages,learned before.Diffrency is necessary,too.Because, diffrent knowledge is interesting and easier to learn.Finally, I want to say that I write all of these believing human is perfect, especially in learning language and social relations.And this is the resource I feed; We created you differently as language and race for you to know each other-from hucurat suresi
B-According to me, piraha language is good example for UG.Although, there are a lot of differencies and 150 speakers, this language supplies people to communicate each other.The important thing is that; what I want to say is to be understood by listener.This is another dimension of UG.(common property of all language)

Anonymous said...

1) it depends on the languages.for example,let's think about a man whose native language is Turkish and who knows English as a L2.when he wants to learn L3,the previously acquired and learned language can make easier to learn L3 or have no effect.
Now,let's make it clearer.when that man wants to learn German,L2 can make easier to learn and help learning process.because German and English are in the same family root(Indo-Europian).L1 (Turkish) is a bit distant,so it can be result of confusion.
what if he wants to learn Azerbanian Turkish_? in this case, L1 helps learning process but L2 has no effect.
finally,when that man wants to learn chinese or arabic,which have completely different letters than L1 and L2,nor L1 or L2 helps the man's learning process.

2) a)"it is possible for children to learn a language without being born with grammatical rules." I want to give "Hanzo,a film by Kemal Sunal" as an example.when people find him,he doesnt know how to speak,he just is grumbling.before the film ends,he is learnt to speak,even he can speak some words such as "Armut".Hanzo was born in a place where garammer is not used.But he learnt some words.in this case Piraha's can learn something even if they arent acquired to learn numbers.i think ,when they are brought other place where numarical words,colours are mostly used,they will learn them as to receive their needs.language is born to understand and survive.
b)there is no evidence of innate linguistic knowledge in the early utterances of children.
c)different languages can have different levels of ergativity.

pirana's has no grammatical numbers.because they dont need to use numbers in their lifestyles.so,making generalizations about all languages can make us a little bit mistake.
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Anonymous said...

1)my initial state will differ according to the connection between languages I have learned and the one I am going to learn. If my native and second languages are very similar and the third is from a completely different language family, my knowledge of these two languges will affect me negatively in learning the third. because learning a new thing is easier than changing what you have learned. but in another aspect all languages have something in common, in some this similarities are a lot , in some they are few. but no matter how few these similarities are, they are enough for us to grab the concept of language and this helps us alot.
2)universal grammar seems very logical in common, because there are really interesting links among languages, but it has some flaws and the presence and the qualities of piraha language are the best example showing these. there are basic grammar rules in all languages which are obligatory, such as subordinate clauses, the pronouns, the numbers which are just absent or nearly absent in piraha languge which makes us question the UG. they just don't use numbers, subordinate clauses, forget simply don't mind grammar, they use it as little as they can they care about understanding ach other and use words for what is essential for them and simply don't use the ones they think sre useless among which is numbers. and this shows exactly the impotance of social life in language and and the effect of it showing that there is no certain universal garmmar in all languages.
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Anonymous said...

1)When I start to learn third language,my native language or my second language will be effective for example,ıf I learn japanese,my native language will help me because japanese and turkish belong to same language famıly so they have some parameters but ıf I start to learn german,I benefit from my second language because germany and english belong to same language famıly so they have some parameters.If I start to learn a third language,the intial state should start to learn the comman differences and similarities between native language,second language and target language
2)According to UG all languages in the world have some comman structures such as tenses,subortınating clauses and according to chomsky and the inniatist are born with LAD.But this generalızation about language is not valid for all of the languages.when we look piraha's language,we can see that the praha language does not have past tense,numbers and subortinating clauses and they have no time concept.without some basic principles,language learnıng can be accomplished.piraha language may be evıdence to the that idea

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3231050093 said...

After having learned a second language,studies to learn a third may seem to be easier.And this is the basic of the universal grammar theory.According to the theory humans are already born with the ability to develop grammar knowledge in mind,so any human can learn any language either by making reference to their native language or by pointing to the differences.The video that we watched about the othistic man "christopher" is a good example for this theory.In that,he has just read books about a language and developed knowledge about it,he was even able to read the alphabets totally different from each other.On the other hand what we have in hand about piraha people is an important contrastion to universal grammar that should be kept in mind.Because they have a rather limited system of language but they can't even learn to count up to ten,and I think this is a proof to the relationship between the environment and language acquisition,in other words the behaviourist approch.
They can't learn to count numbers because they aren't a trading country,or maybe they don't have words referring to colours because they live in an amazon village so don't have much alternatives of colours other than some tones of certain colours such as green and blue.
Considering all this information together,I think language acqusiton can't be sticked to just one theory ,humans' innate capacity and the effect of environment should always be regarded together,so the acquisition period should be arranged accordingly..

Anonymous said...

As UG a theory which assumes that all languages have a common basis and that language is acquired by being born with grammatical rules. christopher can be shown as an example. born with LAD he could learn languages by reading and exercising himself. according to specific structures which are same(tenses, subjects, pronouns)in all languages we can say that languages resemble each other. furthermore the person who learns 2nd L benefits from his NL he tries relate his NL to the L he is learning, in the same way one who learns 3rd L benefits especially from L2 and in some cases from NL. similarities and differences are the clues learner looks for. as
according to UG we are born with grammatical rules and UG can be refuted by piraha language as it does not have features which UG see as essential for all languages. because piraha people do not use the numbers, colours, past tense. due to the fact that it is the language they use we can not say that it is not a language. will we say that UG is mistaken? we can say that they are lacking cultural elements and a language without a culture, as they do not need those and they do not use them and that they live just today? they are in communication with other people,too but they can not learn these idoms, either. so what can be said? we can not say that they are mentally ill. in the same way they do not lack in brain power. in my opinion piraha language is just a strange situation to be solved for UG. 323105007

Anonymous said...

1)I think the person who knows second language can easily learn a third language especially if the languages' rules are similar. Firtly, while he/she is learning third language he/she apply the rules of second language and even the first language. If he/she had constitued his/her universal grammar according to second language, he could try to apply universal grammar. So he/she will use the rules of second language while he/she is learning the third language.
princibles and parametres play important roles in universal grammar. Princibles refer to care grammars of all languages and they are invariable. Parametres refer to the specific features that all languages have. So, he/she makes use of the princibles and parametres of the second language while learning third language. For example; the second language of the learner includes prepositions and also the third language of the learner includes prepositions so this makes learning third language easy applying the rules of second and native language rules and universal grammar.

2)According to universal grammar language consists of a set of abstract princibles that charactarize core grammars of all natural languages. So it has some common grammar rules which we apply while we are learning a second language or a third language. Universal grammar has something in common with all languages such as subordinate clauses, numbers, colours, syntax, pronunciation. However Piraha language is opposed to universal grammar. Because Piraha language doesn't have numbers, name of colours, subordinate clauses, past tense and it has only thre pronouns and few specific kin terms for example; one word covers both "father" and "mother".
For these reasons, universal grammar its validity against the criticisms.

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Anonymous said...

By farmost popularcurrentconception of UNIVERAL GRAMMAR (UG)is the one due to the generative grammar linguist Noam Chomsky, whose theory UG is supposed to be a theory of the human languge faculty. More spesifically, he employs the therm UG to refer to a system of principles and paramters that underlie all human languages.
An important aspect of Chomsky's theory is the argument that human beings are innately predisposed to learn natural language. Thus, any normal human child can learn any natural language s/he is exposed to, a process that occurs relatively effortlessly and rapidly. Moreover, child language acquisition takes place in the bsence of any negative data and as a result of exposure to evindence which is random unsystematic,and devoid of the kind of abstract information that is crucial to the structure of human language. The UG hypothesis has had considerable impact on theoretical research in second language acquisiton, where a major issue in recent years has been whether an adult language learner has access to UG.
Note that it is possible to speak of language universals without committing oneself to the concept of UG, as for examole some typologists do, who simply take universals to mean characteristics that are found in all or most languages. 3231050054

Anonymous said...

every people has a language potential.from the chıldhood,even after bornıng people start with some suonds.after a few year they learn their natieve languages.for me the initial state for second and thir languages is grammar.despite of some diferent structures grammer is the helper.moreover some common words can be helpfull also 3231050067
2-what do we mean by sayıng UG is that every languagec has theır own rules but accordıng to pıraha thıs doesnt possible.thıs language rejects using basing gramatıcal rules.for example they can say somethıng lıke thıs
e.g;(not saying)when ı came you were sleeping(they can say)ı came you sleepıng

Anonymous said...

İf you know a second language and start learning a third the initial state can be similarities.That is,when you start a third language you will take into consideration closeness and distant relationship,because it is easy to learn a subject that is found in each language .For example, if you know english and want to learn bulgarian ,you can learn making sentence easily ,because the grammar structure of each language is similar.Another example can be pirahas that doesn't use numbers.According to research, Everett attempt to teach them to learn to count over a period of eight months ,he tried in vain to teach them the portuguese numbers.Because they don't use numbers and no words to numbers in their language ,so they can't understand the concept of numbers and aritmatic. When we look at the UG, we can say that thereis an assumption that all languages have a common structural basis ,but when we examine the piraha language ,we can find that this assumption is insufficient.For example piraha ,on the contrary of other languages ,doesn't use subordinate clauses.Also pirihas don't need for numbers ,in their everyday lives.This research doesn't show that their thinking is slower than others.This differance can reasult from their culture.Therefore , we can't support the uniqueness of human language properly.

Anonymous said...

İf you know a second language and start learning a third the initial state can be similarities.That is,when you start a third language you will take into consideration closeness and distant relationship,because it is easy to learn a subject that is found in each language .For example, if you know english and want to learn bulgarian ,you can learn making sentence easily ,because the grammar structure of each language is similar.Another example can be pirahas that doesn't use numbers.According to research, Everett attempt to teach them to learn to count over a period of eight months ,he tried in vain to teach them the portuguese numbers.Because they don't use numbers and no words to numbers in their language ,so they can't understand the concept of numbers and aritmatic. When we look at the UG, we can say that thereis an assumption that all languages have a common structural basis ,but when we examine the piraha language ,we can find that this assumption is insufficient.For example piraha ,on the contrary of other languages ,doesn't use subordinate clauses.Also pirihas don't need for numbers ,in their everyday lives.This research doesn't show that their thinking is slower than others.This differance can reasult from their culture.Therefore , we can't support the uniqueness of human language properly. 3231050006

Anonymous said...

1)as we all know unıversal grammar has two poınt ın thıs conceipt.one ıs parameters and the other ıs prıncıples.when a student learns a thırd language he buıld hıs ınformatıon accordıng to hıs second language.thıs wıll constıtude hıs way of learnıng.eventually everybody who ıs fond of learnıng languages develops tecnıques that are flexıble for hıs learnıngs.but actually these way can be approxımately the same ıth each person to me.and when learnıng a thırd language a student wıll use the ınformatıon that lıke the second one such as preposıtıon,relatıve clauses e.t.c
2)there can be some exceptıon to u.G lıke pırahas cos there ıs no number,grammer and tıme syst ın theır language.yes ı thınk ıt can be possıple for modern cıvılısatıons and can fıt to chıldren educatıon but not to all unıverse as ıt names.G.Sampson belıeves that unıversal grammar theorıes are not falsıable arguıng that grammatıcal generalızatıons made are sımple observatıons about exıstıng languages and not predıctıons about what ıs possıple ın a language.3231050043

Anonymous said...

1)we know that according to the universal grammer,all languages have some common structure.so,whenwe learn 3.language,we use our 2.languages information.because according to them,alllanguages may have prepositions,adverbs.nouns.for example when I learn different language,it is easy for me.because If my 3.language have relative clause,I understant it very easy.because english have relative clause.yani boşluklar kolay tamamlandıgında ögrenmek daha kolay.ama ana dilimizde vede 2.dilimizde olmayan bi konuyu ögrenmek daha zor.
2)on the other hand,universalgrammer includes parametres and pirinciples.when we think piraha,it is very different.because they dont have numbers,tenses.this situation isnt explained by ug.ı think culture and enviroment effects language.yani insanlarındogustan bi grammatical structure la dogmuyorlar.it is opposite the ug.because ug is generelazitaion all languages.3231050084

3231050005 said...

I think that at the start of a 3rd language,the first thing for learners to do is transfering from second language.Generally learner is ready and tend to compare rules of the target language with the second one.That is interlanguage transfer the influence of L2 over the 3rd.In multiple language acquisition it is so normal that one can not keep languages and interlanguages apart and not to avoid mixing the rules of each other phonetic similarity,grammer structures and also some other aspects.All of these are likely to be transferred by the learner.I take Spanish course now and I experience for myself the interlanguage transfer.I took French lessons for 4 years in high school,now in Spanish course I found out that 2 transfer all the rules in Spanish from French.I establish relations between two in basic grammatical structures generally.So as a consequence,in the process of acquisition of L3,I think,L2 has the most determiner effect on it.

Anonymous said...

before all else i think that while learning third language the initial state are the simalarities of languages.while learning the third language,paramaters and similarities of second and the firat languages are very important.in as much as,acording to the universal grammar all languages share similiar features.so when we learn the third language,we must start with the similarities and also dissimilarities of the first and second languages.

2)universal grammar claims that all languages have a common structural basis.Acording to UG children can born with the ability to learn grammar.but piraha language is very different from other languages.As it lack a number words,colours and subordinate clauses.UG is criticized as of the fatures of piraha language.
ilkay özden
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Anonymous said...

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according to universal grammar all languages have some similarities.so ıf someone wants to learn third language,second languge help him to learn it,because of course there are some similarities between them.for example ıf ı want to learn germany ı benefit from english.there a lot of similarities between them.for instance preposition is the similarity between them so when ı want to learn it in germany it is familiar to me.according to ug of course all of the languge have clauses,colours.syntax,pronounciation.so it is easy to learn third languge or another language for the help of the similar language.

Anonymous said...

when we start to learn third language,we will analyze first and second language's principle.this analysis results explain that first and second language's principles,grammar rules and some words help us learning third language.for example in my second language the english words cat,calender are almost the same with my third language words katze,kalender.this is a universal grammar.
universal grammar is criticized. this criticism tells us some language are,maybe, different from the other languages for example piraha.ıts no connection to other living languages.The Pirahã language has a different linguistic features like lack of number words.there arent any linguistik feature like this and this is the criticism for universal grammar.
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Anonymous said...

1- If we already know a second language and start learning a third, the initial state can perserving some features of first language or second language and creating innovations.. the learners, by using different learning strategies such as language transfer, overgeneralisation and simplification otherwise can make transfers between them..
2-Universal Grammar is a theory of linguistic postulating principles of grammar shared by all languages, thought to be innate to humans.. It attempts to explain language acquisition in general.. Also(UG)proposes a set of rules that would explain how children acquire their languages or how they construct valid sentences of their language.. But the Piraha language doesn't use subordinate clause also in this language there is not any word associated with past time references,number words, or colors..I think that, the Piraha language contradict the theory of universal grammar that there are basic rules true for all languages..
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Anonymous said...

3231050066 Abdurrahman Tanrıverdi

For the first question,answer is as follows:
The third language learners’ initial state is dependent upon if there is full transfer-no Access,no transfer-full Access,full transfer-full Access,partial transfer-full Access.Namely,if the second language learning is an acquisition and if the third will be acquisition,we can mention about both no transfer-full Access and partial transfer-full Access.The learner of the third language may use the knowledge of first,second language and UG by means of grammar.
For the second question,answer is as follows:
When we look into UG,according to Chomsky there are some precise principles such as:sentence’s parts,presence of noun,adjective,time and place determiner.And these principles don’t change in any language.
Contrary to the subject above,Piraha tribe,it is peculiar but real,has no time and account perseption.Even they have some clues ‘some, to be V+ing, by meaning in their language,they don’t have precise account and time determining structure.Needless to say,Chomsky’s theory about principles of language function is neutralized by the way of usage of language by Pirahas.

Anonymous said...

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1-In universal grammar there is a certain thought that all languages have the same grammar structure.The user of third language can use the second language as a map on learning it.The learner can compare some of the rules in second language while learning a third language.Maybe all structures are not the same but it will be helpful,I think.For example some words from the first and second language can be helpful in third language.While learning second and third language also it is important that if they are from the same language family,we learn it easier.But I do not say that it is a must.
2-While UG claims all grammar structures are the same, we see that there are some exceptions like pirahas.They do not use grammar structures like tenses,colors,names and other things.So,we see that UG is not completely right.

Anonymous said...

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This situation can be explained with the help of the universal grammar theory;UG claims that all languages are alike in some ways first of all we consider the grammatical structure of language in world nearly all languages have subject verb object in its structure the basic differnt side is their position in the sentences and we should remember the language families before explaining this situation india-europen languge ural altay etc . So learning third language shows different process in this cases if your third language and its grammatical structure are same with second or NL İt will be easier for you because we learned from our fırst lessons that when we learn a language we compare features these two language so our input changes according to this similarity.
Universal Grammar and chomsky supports the theory which all language in earth have same features but they can change according to in their structure ı mean all language have ver in grammar but when turkish uses it at the end of the sentences english uses it after the subcject.But all these referances and theories the worl has got pirah language and this language differnt completely from Ug and chomsky how can we explain this situation? firstly we can claim that pirah people isolated from the real word they didn't affect from any other culter so they produce theır ownlanguage and so they have no many general grammatical feature this is my theory.
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Anonymous said...

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I thınk that anyone,knowıng two language,wıll not be ın dıffıcult sitiation thanks to hıs experıence.And also all languages are designed in a way that they function in the same way in terms of grammar rules.So every language has ıts own grammer and rules.ıf you understand the buıld of grammer,you can pass the next step ın learnıng.Your second language ıs very ımportant for your learnıng thırd language.why?languages look lıke each other.that ıs:ıf you see nouns ın your second language,you know certaınly there are nouns ın thırd language too.So because of the fact that you learnt a strange language before,you wıll not be ın contradıctıon ın learnıng thırd one.But when we see pıraha language,we are ın contrast.So that language doesnt has numbers or clause.maybe thıs condıtıon pull down some theorıes also.

Tayyibe Arıtürk said...

1)While starting the term of learning a third language,the initial state is looking at the features of principles and parameters in three language.For example acording to UG there is principle of grammar that shared by all languages like that a sentence must always have a subject even if it is not directly implied.They claim language acquisition is general.On the other hand if our third language has subset principles like 2,4,6,8,10 and our two languages native and second have principles like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 we can make full transfer to our third language because we already know it's principles.Exp:our second language are turkısh and englısh we can learn easily Bulgarıan.
2)The theory of UG is not completely true because the Piraha language has number of unsual lingıistic features.For example they lack of number words,there is no abstract color words apart from light and dark etc.So the Piraha language disprove the theory.

Anonymous said...

1)If a learner already know a second language and start learning a third,I think learner have a substructure of the grammar.The learner has a substructure because of the other two languages.When learner starts learning a third,there are some paramaters among three languages.the learner also uses universial grammar.The learner tries to connect with native language and second language
2)To learn a language or another thing we need a structure.we may learn without a structure but it is more diffcult for us.The structure of a language is grammar.All of the language have a grammar system.Universial grammar is a theory of linguistic postulating princioles of grammar shared by all languages.I think there is an importance of this theory in learning language.However there are some exception such as Piraha language which have no grammar structure so it is more diffucult learning such languages than the languages which have a grammar structure.
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Anonymous said...

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1)According to universal grammer, all languages have a comman structure basis. All languages have some kind of syntax, clause structure, pronouns, adverbs, adjectives, pronunciation etc.So all languages are alike in some ways. When we start learning a third language we are affected by the languages that we know.Our starting point is the final state of our second language and the universal grammar. We go on looking for the similarities and differences among the languages. We develop hypotheses about the third language by looking at the rules of our second language. Also subset principle plays an important role in learning process. Going from subset to superset requires only positive evidence and this feature can change the initial state.
2)UG assumes that all language have a comman structural basis. But when we look at the pirahos we couldn't see these comman structures. It is a language without grammatical numerals, abstract colour words, quantity words, past tense. This is the result of their life style. Because languages are created by cultures. So we can say that to assume the uniqueness of human language as UG suggests isn't possible.

Anonymous said...

Universal grammar is a theory of linguistic postulating principles of grammar shared by all
languages,thougt to be innate to humans.This theory does not claim that all languages have the same grammar,rather it proposes a set of rules that would explain how children acquire their language or how they construct valid sentences of their language.All languages have similar rules,grammatical structures such as verbs,nouns,numerals,name of days...So this similarities facilitate the learning of the other languages.
Principles and parameters are basics of Universal Grammar.A principle of UG is a statement that is true for all human languages.Principles effects the learning of third language.If anyone knows English and Turkish and is going to learn Bulgarian,he\she can learn relative clauses of Bulgarian easily because of English has relative clauses in spite of Turkish hasnt got.Parameters represent restricted opinions in which languages can differ syntactically and they involve the clustering of proporties.Languages like English and Bulgarian have associated proporties,whereas English and Turkish having none of them.For ex.
I want to play football(English)
İskam da igraya futbol(Bulgarian)
Futbol oynamak istiyorum(Turkish)
"to"and "da" are similar but "mak" is different.
The goal of linguistics is to identify all of the principles and parameters that are universal to human language.As such any attempt to explain the syntax of a particular language using a principle or parameters is cross-examined with the evidence available in other languages.
Some linguists oppose to UG theory;it is outspokenly opposed by Geoffrey Simpson who claims that it is possible for children to learn a language without born with grammatical rules.The Piraha language is mentioned to oppose the theory too.Because this language has no grammatical numbers not even "one" or "two" the closest the language comes to numerals are general quantity words like "many" and it abstracts color words other than terms for light and dark.It has few spesific kin terms,one word covers both "father" and "mother".
3212040025 Aysel Çelik

Anonymous said...

First we must find principles and parameters in this third language.When we find principles we can get information about what can be transferred to language and parameters help to find out the information that we have to learn ın other word the differences between the second and third languages.According to UG theory all human languages have a universal grammar that form a sort of basic rules enabling children to put meaning and syntax to a combination of words but when we look at the Piraha language we find out some opposite situations to this theory.For example Pirahas don't use subordinate clauses that is a part of universal grammar theory.In contrast with other languages they use only three pronouns.On the other hand, because they hardly use any words associated with time and past tense this leads them to live in a carpe_diem culture that have no stories,paints or art.Also they don't take it important to use colours or the concept of n umbers.These features too make this language specific for researchers.For me another interesting point is the rule about the pronunciation of several phonemes that depends on the speakers' sex.Because UG theory includes all languages and Pirahas' thinking isn't any slower than the avarage college freshman and they don't live in genetic isolation -they also mix with people from the surrounding populations their language isn't an exception.Also piraha language is still a living language without danger of extinction.All these situations affect the validity of the UG theory.
_3231050047_

Anonymous said...

1)The initial state is learning further information.Once anyone takes pleasure of learning he/she might want to increase his/her knowledge.When you learn a language you can't say that I only learned that language.Besides you learn their cultur,new ideas,new worlds etc.Anyone learning a language broadens his mind.Of course learning a new language is noy simple.But if you take into consideration UG rules:there are six grammatical structures on the world,all languages relate sounds(or gestures) and meaning in a largely arbitrary way,they are structured hierarchily.In the light of this information why not?What can be hindrance to any person willing to learn?
2)According to UG all languages have general rules.All children born with Language Acquisition.Some people don't agree with this concept.They base their idea on Piraha language.It is a language spoken by people of Amazons,Brasil.It has only 150 speakers.It has different features.some of them:no ngrammatical rules,no abstract colour words,few spesific kin terms.people take into consideration these rules.I think it is not logical enough to opposite UG.Because of a language one can't assume that UG falsifiable.When we investigate UG rules we can see that it is more logical.If children don't born with LAD they can not learn the language so early.It could take a longer time...

ercan 3231040019 said...

1-A THİRD LANGUAGE LEARNER HAVE ADVANTAGE OF KNOWING SECOND LANGUAGE.
IF A PERSON KNOW SECOND LANGUAGE HE KNOWS HOW A LANGUAGE IS LEARNED.
SO HE LEARNS THE THIRD EASIER THAN THE SECOND. ACCORDING TO UG,LANGUAGE
HAVE SIMILIAR GRAMMER AND OTHER SIMILIAR PARAMETRES. SO THIS SHOWS THAT LEARNING
A THIRD IS NOT DIFFICULT.BUT THERE IS AN IMPORTANT THING. IF THE LANGUAGE HAVE QUIETLY DIFFERENCES
THIS CAN MAKE OUR LEARNING DIFFICULT.
2-A CRITISISIM IS THAT PIRAHA LANGUAGE DOESN'T INCLUDE SOME PRINCIPLES AND PARAMETRES WHICH OTHER LANGUAGES HAVE.
FOR INSTANCE IT DOES NOT INCLUDE PAST TENSE, NUMERALS, COLORS' WORD... BUT UG ARGUES THAT ALL LANGUAGES HAVE COMMAN FEATURES,
HAVE SIMILARITIES SUCH AS GRAMMER, VERBS, NOUNS...ETC.IF THIS IS TRUE THERE ARE 2 SITUATION:1-IS PIRAHA A LANGUAGE? 2-IF IT IS
A LANGUAGE, IS UG TRUE?....3231040019

Anonymous said...

If I begin to learn the third language I dont know
whether I would have difficuties.Because ,
for example,Germany is similiar with english;
so it is easier to learn germany than to learn
another one which has no gramatical or lexical
similiarities.But,surely, the linguistic skill
which I won while learning first will help me with
learning third.
2.Is the way of learning a language same with
acquisition ?For UG "yes".For it humans have an
inner ability..Another claim is thah all languages
have features which are used commonly by all the
languages.But this doesnt seem right when we
consider piraha language in which there are many
lacks of structures that are found in others.If
right,this means there are many difficulties waiting
for pirahas to learn a language.
:) 040087

Anonymous said...

3231050058

1)from the cıtes I've vısıted whıle tryıng to answer your queston,I've learned that all human languages are based upon unıversal characterıstıcs ın terms of grammar or general structure of language.there are prıncıples and parameters ın thıs sense.

Wıth the help of this knowledge,Ican say that whıle tryıng to learn a thırd languege,the ınıtıal state ıs equal to your begınner state ın your former language.I mean that ıf all human languages base upon the same traıts,there must be no dıfference whıle learnıng a thırd or fourth etc.
2)Some lınguısts oppose to Unıversal grammar theory maıntaınıng that ıt ıs possıble for chıldren to learn a language wıthout beıng born wıth grammatıcal rules.sampson argues that the grammatıcal generalızatıons made are sımply observatıons about exıstıng languages.
Accordıng to some,Piraha Language is a good factor to dısprove Unıversal grammar theory.
Pıraha Language has a number of unusual lınguıstıc features.For ınstance,ıt has one of the smallest phoneme ınventorıes of any known languages,ıncludıng two very rare sounds.Another feature of thıs language that surprısed me very much ıs that,the pronuncıatıon of several phonemes depends on the speakers sex.A very ınterestıng traıt ıs that there is no grammatıcal numerals,not even "one" or"two".They are usıng general quntıty words lıke"many".
Accordıng to lınguısts who oppose to unıversal grammar,the occurrence of so many unusual lınguıstıc factors ın a sıngle language is remarkable

But I thınk some of the unusual features can be explaıned wıth other reasons.To ılustrate,the reason of the lack of numbers ın thıs language can be that because they are nomadıc peoples,hunter/gatherers wıth nothıng to count and hence no need to numeral words.then one should not expect theır language to have these words.

(a last excuse from you,
I ve been so late for thıs answer,I trust on your tolerance)

Anonymous said...

1)Learning a second language is a very difficult task for many people.Each language contains its own system of rules for how sounds may be combined into meaningful speech patterns.This means that words must be combined in a specific order to yield a meaningful sentence that will be understood by all people who speak that language.Word order rules are often troublesome for students learning a second language.Students learning a second language also have difficulty with pronunciation.When children learen their first language,there is no interference from any other language system.However,once we know a language system,our knowledge of the rules of that system tends to interfere with our acquisition of the rule system of the second language.But if you already know a second language,learning a third will be easier for you.People who already know a second language are aware of the fact that they can make the process easier if they compare and contrast the rules of the new language system to the those of their first and second language system.This helps to make them more aware of the differences among the languages.They are lucky in that they will not feel the problem of first language interference in a great deal.They can learn a third by using their knowledge of two languages.

2)Universal Grammar was initially a theory of first language acquisition.Noam Chomsky argued children acquire a first language before they are able to accomplish simpler tasks.Not all parents correct errors in their young children,still children overcome those errors.Children with intellectual disabilities acquire language.Due to these,Chomsky argued that we must have an innate device that is able to do all languages.One of the features of this language device is the claim that there is critical period for acquiring a first language.Thus,adolescents and adults would no longer have access to this device to enable them to acquire a second language.Still,proponents of UG argue that the device is still there,it is simply no longer able to assist in the SLA without interference from the first language-that is the student will see the L2 through the L1.UG also argues that all languages have common features.But there are exceptional examples such as Piraha language.This language doesn't have usual language features such as counting system,subordinate clauses,descriptive words etc.This example shows that UG isn't a complete theory in all aspects.

CANAN GÜLBEY 3231040135

Anonymous said...

According to universal grammer, all languages have a comman structure basis. All languages have some kind of syntax, clause structure, pronouns, adverbs, adjectives, pronunciation etc.So all languages are alike in some ways.In learning a third language,our starting point is the final state of our second language and the universal grammar.We develop hypotheses about the third language by looking at the rules of our second languge.Because our second language that we have already known and our third language that we are trying to learn have some grammer rules that are common.For instance,ın that way we can learn differences between the second language and third language and knowıng and learnıng dıfferences, we can learn the third language easily with less mistakes!
3231050016 said....

Gülten Doğan said...

In the light of the universal grammar theory the initial state can be stated as the struggle of understanding parameters of this mentioned third language. Because the learner is born with the major principles of language which is triggered during his/her mother tongue acquisition and second language acquisition/ learning process and which means that nearly all languages share a finite set of fundamental principles (e.g., all languages have a subject in a sentence, sounds, vocabulary, or movements among the word parts.)In this initial state of learning of a third language will be learning this mentioned language’s specific parameters.

Chomsky claims that all languages have a common structural basis and all human beings’ brain includes a limited set of rules for organizing the languages. Although the presence of Creole languages supports Chomsky’s theory but Pirâha languages learning and Basque languages dispute with Chomsky’ theory. Pirâha Languages is unlike the other languages doesn’t have a habit as employing numbers to describe quantity. So the native speakers of this language are being cheated in trade. Or With regard to the vocabulary of kinship (in contrast to Turkish) they get along with few words like one word only for mother and father. Moreover colors aren’t worded. Although color words or numerals are shared nearly by all languages, Pirâha doesn’t share these common features of languages

Anonymous said...

A second language can be learned by helping of first language.The inferences is made about the first language effect the approach to learning second language.In the same way is used when learning a third language.And ıf you already learn a second language,you benefit your images that belongs to first and second language,Of course, knowledge of universal grammar all language.These make learning a third language easy.But when we think according to the universal grammar all languages have,pihara doesn't suit this teory.So universal grammar has comman interpretation that all language have adjectives,adverbs,pronouns,clause structure besides piraha doesn't have numbers,names of colours,etc.
3231050078

Anonymous said...

1) My initial state for thırd languge is the 'principle' feature of the unıversal grammar. As we know, to make sense ın perceptıon, we try to benefıt from the sımılarıtıes. So, ın thıs case, as all languages have a common structure, ıt ıs the easy way to follow for the thırd language.For example, ın a lesson of Özlem ILKER ETUS, there was a poem whıch was ın Danısh. We all dıdn't know thıs language but by usıng our mother tongue's and second language's features we all explaıned what ıt saıd.
2)When we look at pıhara, thıs language contradicts wıth Universal grammar. As we saıd ın unıversal grammar, langugages have a common structure. But in thıs language, we can not fınd any common structures. So, we can state that Pıhara language ıs not a common one.. 3231040050

Anonymous said...

universal grammar... what is grammar? why is it so important for a language? indeed, what does it do ? if the language is a society, a group of people, the grammar is the government for this society. so guess what? every society has a government, even the most primitive one. and aproximately every governmental type is alike. so it means every language has its own grammar. however some governments have strict rules, and some do not have. the similarity is that every gavernments, and every languages have rules. this unuiversal grammar.if you are learning other contries` governmental types, your own rules will help you as you are getting the help of your own grammar while you are learning the other languages3231040098

Pelin K.Akcura 32320314 said...

If someone knows already a second language it certainly easier for him to learn the third one if they have from the familiar language root. For example if a person already knows german and starts to learn english he can easily transfer structures from german knowlegde in to english or if he meets some unfamiliar structures in english he can easily deal and find out what it should be consciously/ unconciously associating with the already settled knowledge in german. The product might not completely right or even false but by the help of such linking attempts his interlanguage would be progressed and his thinking process would be wider. For example if a person meets words like "which, that" in a text and doesn't know how do they supposed to be in english but already knows in german the relative clause, from that knowledge going on he can guess and also by the help of the whole context meaning what are they and what function do they have in a sentence. In this case though german is a superset because its grammar and sentence structures are more detailed and complicated one can figure out the english easier as a subset by making corrections if necessary. The opposite way is far more difficult. On the other side, it depends also on individual differences, point of views and closeness and openness to learn languages. In this case if a person who already knows english doesn't need to force himself to learn german, not only because it could be difficult to learn a superset after a subset, but because he thinks that english would be enough to deal all around.
2. In the case of piraha people I can't say that it is a full matching ideal critic model against UG, because like in any case there will be exceptions, there are also exceptions in language rules, irregularities,etc. Piraha people are used to live in a very seperate area even in that century and they feel no need to get in touch with the world apart.Like W.Safir mentions language is directly associated with yhe live standarts and living conditions. They are influenced by the environmental circumstances and produced and developped a language according to their own needs. They don't need to define past because they share that certain moment; they don't need numbers because there is no handling, bargain and appointments; they don't use different words for mother or father the meaning of a parent is for them important... the examples can be extended in that way

Anonymous said...

1)For starting third language which language will be is important.If I know English for second language and if I start to learn Dutch for third language it is more easier.Schachter made teste on language in question have different requirements on subjacency.In dutch,subjacency restrictions are much the same as inEnglish.But same test did to Korean also.The Korean speaking learners,in keeping with the no-access position were not constrained by subjacency.3231040118

Ondort said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ondort said...

1. The initial state needless to say that, if I have second language and start learning new deal my first aim must be search common features of all three languages. Sir, after my first sentence, I have a big discouragement in my words, :( because there is the answer; The Theory of Chomsky that is Universal Grammar. However, this theory simplifies the new language learning with the twin parts of languages. So, their roots, their grammar rules, their lexical rules, verbs, phrases and et cetera et cetera.

2. I can not see any run away point and/or any advantages that relates with Universal Grammar. Pirahã Language also moves towards its end, become to vanish. Because, this language uses by a few villages and it is just stay in the dusty history pages. However Universal Grammar needs the grammar rules, lexical rules, verbs, phrases and etc. to relate the language with the other languages. The criticism is the limited features to Universal Grammar by referring Pirahã Language.

3231030109

Anonymous said...

A child learns his first language using neural fibers.To learn something brain make connection between neural fibers.While he is learning third language there should be transfer from his first or second language.First,second and third language acquisition involve the same process.This does not mean that there are no differences.We can not say that this language is easier to leran than another language,but this is not to case secon or third language acquisition.For instance a native speaker of Spanish can learn Italian easily or if his second language is Spanish he can learn Italian easier than Chineese for example,because he has grammatical structure already and Spanish and Italian have the same grammatical structure.I am an example for this case.I am a learner of Spanish and using my knowledge of English I can understand,acquire Spanish grammar rules easily.
2)There should be connection between language.Without making connection language can become extinct.For instance;if we lok at European languages,we can find a lot of similarities.nearly they have the same grammatical structure etc...Isolated languages have the risk of extinction,in addition if language is used by a few people,that people are bilingual generally.ı mentioned about the general rules.There is an exception,Piraha people and piraha language.Nearly 150 people use this language and it is the last surviving member of the Mura languages.Piraha language is an isolated one .They are monolingual as well.Iread a sentebce about their linguistic features;"the pronunciation öf several phonemes depends on the speaker's sex"It is really interesting.
Language of Piraha can manage to survive without any connection an tgere is no danger for them.they are gatherer and their language includes what they need,use and do.
3231040081

Anonymous said...

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